Abdulsalam Al Shorehi

To start, thank you once more, Special Envoy for Yemen, Hans Grundberg and welcome.

UN Special Envoy Hans Grundberg

Thank you very much for receiving me and for allowing me to be part of, this exchange. It is my great pleasure  to be with you and also to be able to have this conversation with you and all viewers, all Yemenis, to update you and to talk about my reading of the situation and my assessment, but also my hopes for the future and share my thoughts in that regard. So, I am more than happy to be with you.

Al Shorehi

First, we appreciate your efforts, and we are very thankful because many breakthroughs happened during your tenure including prisoners’ exchanges and a truce, and much optimism in Yemen. Let's start with the truce. What is new about the truce? Will there be a renewal of the truce? How satisfied are you with the previous truce?

Grundberg

Thank you very much for that question. I think, in order to answer that question truthfully, I would like to broaden the answer a bit by putting the truce and all the work that has been done in context. And here, the first thing that I think is, the first important message for me to mention, in that sense is the firm belief that I have had since the beginning of my tenure. And that goes also since before I was appointed as a Special Envoy. And that is a firm belief that Yemenis can resolve the conflict peacefully. And I also believe that peace can be just. And with that basis and with that hope and with that firm belief, my Office and myself have been working with Yemenis in order to push for one aim, and that is a resumption of a political process that can lead to a sustainable settlement of the conflict.

The truce in that situation was a turning point in the conflict. Let us not under evaluate that it remains today the longest period of relative calm that Yemen has experienced since the beginning of the conflict. The truce also gave us an opportunity to achieve breakthroughs on different contentious issues that had been stalled for a very long time and where we could not see any progress.

The truce in itself gave us the opportunity to engage in discussions that we couldn't have before. It has also provided, possibilities for particular solutions to be delivered and to be implemented, such as the reopening of ports of entry to Yemen, uh, which has been to the benefit of most Yemenis. But in the end, in the end, the truce has been a window of opportunity, a means…

 Al Shorehi

 But the truce for many Yemenis has been a state of no-war/no-peace, which is annoying.

Grundberg

And that is exactly the point that I was going to make. And that is that the truce in itself is not enough. It is not the end. It is a means to get to an end. It is an entry point for the settlement of the conflict. So, the truce in itself will not deliver what Yemen needs in full essence. As long as we do not build on the truce, all the issues that remain to be settled to get to a long-term settlement of the conflict will remain too fragile and will not be able to be settled.

So, the aim and the real challenge that I and my Office and all Yemenis face right now is to ensure that we take the necessary steps going from the current situation from a truce towards real steps towards a political settlement and also implementation of a nationwide ceasefire. And that work is ongoing at this point.

Al Shorehi

Is there hope to renew the truce given that a comprehensive deal is still far off? Or is this left as an unresolved issue without knowing where it will lead?

Grundberg

I think that since September last year when we presented to the parties a proposal to renew the truce, which did not, let us be clear, it did not succeed in achieving renewal. We have been working at the Office, but also in coordination and cooperation with regional partners and the international community at large in order to address some of the contentious issues where we could not see an agreement. And in order to come to a situation where the parties can be presented with a proposal from the United Nations that will lead towards a nationwide ceasefire and the resumption of a political process.

That work is ongoing. I am not going to guess when and if that is going to be materialized. But right now, the channels of communications with the Yemeni parties are open and are constructive. And the discussions that we are having are focusing on solutions. And that makes me,that means that I remain hopeful that this can be settled.

 Al Shorehi

At the level of the political process, there are those who discuss salaries, airport opening, and expansion of Hydaudah port activities. These indicate to Yemenis that a political solution or a political settlement is still extremely illusive. Is that correct?

Grundberg

So, I think the first thing to realize is that the level of trust following eight years of war remains a scarce resource in Yemen. You cannot suddenly see a level of trust reappear magically following the conflict that we have seen. So, one issue here is that we have been working gradually on taking care of that matter and to reinstate a certain amount of trust in a gradual and careful manner.

And we have seen lately agreements between the parties which have been implemented. And that delivers a gradual increase in the sense or in the level of trust not only in the possibility of reaching agreements, but also the possibility to implement these agreements. And that is good.

But what we need is a clear commitment from all sides about the need to enter into political negotiations on the longer-term settlement of the conflict. And for that to happen, I think that we first engage with the parties on the current basis, which is trying to seek a commitment from the parties on the three elements that we want to work with them on: making sure that we have a commitment for a nationwide ceasefire and the implementation of this ceasefire, but also engage on issues related to the economy, and more importantly, making sure that we can see a resumption of a political process.

These discussions are ongoing, and I will repeat myself, we have not reached agreement there, but the discussions are ongoing, and we are pushing the parties in that direction.

Al Shorehi

Is there an intention to call all the parties to a meeting, is the negotiations happening soon?

Grundberg

So again, I would not want to enter into speculating about how things are going to develop on prime-time TV. One needs to allow these types of negotiations and discussions to take place in a safe environment. So, from that point of view, I am not going to enter into the level of detail that you might want out of me, but that I cannot give you because I need to respect the level of trust that I have in the interaction with my interlocutors.

But one thing that I do want to admit is that the level of impatience and frustration that I have sensed in my conversation with a number of Yemenis recently, including from my recent travels to Aden and Ma’rib. There is a feeling of impatience that things are not moving at the pace that people want it to move.

I share that level of impatience. From my end, I would have wanted this conflict to end years back. The slow pace is as frustrating for me as it is for all Yemenis. But as long as the channels of communication that I have with the political representatives, as long as that channel of communication remains as open as it is right now, and as long as it is focusing on serious solutions to the conflict, I will remain hopeful that there is a possibility to settle the conflict and that we can reach a solution where the parties agree on a comprehensive settlement, or agree to steps that will lead to a comprehensive settlement of the conflict.

Al Shorehi

I am referring to direct negotiations or meetings. Let's shift now to another topic: the obstructionist. Who is causing the obstruction? Many things have not yet materialized or have not been implemented. Nonetheless, there were initial understandings about them. Who then is the spoiler?

Grundberg

In the work that I do, it is not my role. My role is to ensure that the parties are engaged with one another, and that they come to an agreement, and that they find means of having serious exchanges with one another to find solutions to the conflict. If I start pointing out who is to blame for every single step that we take in that direction, I will fail in my mission, because that will then put me in an impossible situation. So, while we take steps forward and sometimes take steps backwards, and sometimes some are to blame and sometimes some others are to blame, that is a natural evolvement of any type of mediation.

And there, the important part is not that I point out who is at fault at every single step; it is that the parties do engage with me in a trustworthy manner. And that is the aim of the work that I do and the aim of my mission. And that will also remain the core of my, or the central core of the work that I engage on.

Al Shorehi

This particular point, Sir, pertains to the pressures people are under. If at least an indication is made about the party that still relishes the suffering of people, the people may exert greater pressure on the obstructionist if they know who it is. Regardless, I appreciate your professionalism and your efforts to reconcile the divergent points of view.

There have been allegations that the United Nations and the Special Envoy's Office are supporting the Houthis. Even the Houthis accuse you of supporting  the other party or siding with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Those who accuse you of helping the Houthis, on the other hand, give evidence. They claim, for example, that the Houthis have received some assistance, including vehicles redirected to the frontlines, and things of similar nature. How do you respond?

Grundberg

So, I am also accused of being biased to the government of Yemen as well. And that I think is a natural state of play for any mediator that you will at any given moment be accused by one or the other side of bias. That is the natural state for a mediator. The key issue though that remains for me, and for the United Nations in general in its mediation work,  the key principle is the concept of impartiality. And that is a guiding principle for me in my work. And that is something that I will continue to uphold during the course of my tenure. And that also is something that will deliver a sense of trust in the exchanges that I have with the parties. They might for some reasons or others, you might see further accusations of bias for me and my Office. But in essence, the level of impartiality will always be there and will always remain in that sense.  

In principle, I will only remain biased to the standards and principles of international law, and also to the legitimate demands and aspirations of the Yemeni people.

Al Shorehi

Some argue that the role of the UN Envoy has retreated while the roles for the US Special Envoy and Omanis have risen. There is even Saudi mediation or Saudi talk about mediation. Is this accurate or false, and where is the Envoy's office?

Grundberg

So, I think when you speak with Yemenis regardless of which Yemeni you speak with, or when you speak with Yemen's neighbors in the region, or when you speak with the international community, there is a common understanding among all of them: that the  Yemeni conflict needs to come to an end, and that it needs to come to an end through a political process, a serious political process that is under the auspices of the United Nations.

And that means that the work and the trajectory that my mission has been engaging on ever since I took up office and even before that has remained firmly straight and is on course. And that is to ensure that we come to a situation where Yemenis are able to sit and meet and engage constructively for long-term agreements and sustainable and just settlement of the conflict.

That means, with that aim in mind, we will be faced with different opportunities. The possibility of achieving a truce is such an opportunity, and it is a means, as I mentioned earlier, is a means to an end and is an entry point to reach this aim. I talked about that earlier. And I think everyone has understood that the truce is seen as a possibility, but not the end. In addition to that, you will have seen a different level of engagement now between the Saudis, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and the Houthis, but you also have other engagements on other different levels that are taking place in the meantime. All of these are other entry points that all aim to the same goal, and that is to allow Yemenis to enter into serious negotiations with one another under the United Nations’ auspices to reach a long-term and sustainable settlement of the conflict.

That means that I work with two elements in mind. One is the long-term vision that I try to communicate, and that I have been communicating ever since I took up office. And the other issue is the possibility of making use of the different possibilities that the current situation gives to me, that provides entry points and that provides possible solutions to reach the long-term aim. And so, that means that the work that I do adapts on the short-term, but remains stable on the long-term.

 Al Shorehi

Let me ask you about this point specifically, where was the Special Envoy when the Saudi ambassador visited Sana’a? Were you aware of this visit?

Grundberg

To be absolutely frank, I was aware, I have been aware of the exchanges and I have been aware of other exchanges that have been taking place, and I feel rather informed about the level of discussions that are taking place, because as I mentioned earlier, there is an agreement or there is an understanding among all the entities that you speak with, or that are engaged on Yemen, regardless of whether it is the international community, or Yemen’s neighbors or Yemenis themselves, as I mentioned earlier, that the aim should be a resumption of a political process under the United Nations’ auspices.

That means that the efforts that are taking place often take place in coordination with my Office. That means that they aim to ultimately reach the same end, and that is to allow Yemenis to enter into serious negotiations.

Al Shorehi

In your latest visit to Aden, one of the members of your team spoke about the deteriorating situation in Yemen, and I was touched by the way she mentioned that. Can you tell us about what you have seen in Aden and what are the changes on the economic level? Unfortunately, many of the political parties that are Yemeni, they do not know what is happening on the ground.

Grundberg

I am not particularly certain to what exchange you are referring, but on the overall level, in my exchanges in Aden and also in Marib, and in my exchanges in Yemen as a whole, the economic challenges are real, and they are there, and they need to be addressed, and they need to be addressed for all Yemenis and they need to be engaged on.

But when it comes to the work that my mission is engaging on, I have a mandate to try to resolve the political aspect of the Yemeni file. Some of those issues are inherently economic, and these are the ones that we try to address, and that is to make sure that through political negotiations, you can achieve a depoliticization of some of the economic issues.

That does not mean that we will address all matters related to the Yemeni economy, but we have a broader international community that tries to address these in a more concerted manner. And we have a broad presence, UN presence, in Yemen that also addresses these matters on a daily basis. However, it is clear that when you visit Yemen and when you talk to Yemenis, the priority that they will put to you is economic, the daily economic struggle that they face. And the long-term solution to that daily economic struggle is a political settlement of the conflict, a long-term sustainable settlement of the conflict, because that will allow a free flow of goods into Yemen with unified taxation. It will allow a return to normal life that Yemen needs, that Yemenis needs.

So again, I think that the work that I do, while it does not address the daily struggle of every single Yemeni when it comes to the economic situation, the long-term aim of my mission is absolutely part of that solution.

Al Shorehi

Mr. Hans, may I take your opinion quickly about some files and parts of the files of Yemen. Is there an intention to expand flights from/into Sana’a airport? What do you have to say about Sana’a airport?

GrundbergSo here, again, let me just put that into context as well. As I mentioned earlier, there is a need for the Yemenis to return to a normal way of life. And one large element in that is the improvement in the movement of Yemenis, both inside Yemen and outside of Yemen. And that is why the resumption of international travel from Sanaa Airport has been a focus, an area of focus of the United Nations for quite some time.

The truce gave an opportunity to make a breakthrough in that regard. And we have, since last year, seen a steady number of flights from Sana to Amman, which I think is beneficial for a number of Yemenis who seek medical care abroad and it is absolutely part, an important part of the return to the normal way of life for Yemenis. However, it is not the only thing. It is an element, but it is not the whole thing.

The broader issue that I work on, which is the resumption of a political process is, in my view even more important for the long-term settlement of the conflict. But it isclearly an important element that we will continue to focus on, and we'll make sure that we do not give up on that.

Al Shorehi

What about Hodeida Port, the fate of port income, and whether they would be deposited with a neutral entity before being spent on salaries? What are your thoughts?

Grundberg

So, on the Hudaydah port, again, I think one of the challenges that we have seen in Yemen for quite some time is, and I'm sorry again for broadening the question, but I, I still, again, think it needs to be put into context. And one of the challenges that we have seen in Yemen for quite some time is the low purchasing power of the Yemenis themselves. So, even if food is available, the great challenge is the ability or the inability of the Yemenis to afford that food.

So with that understanding in mind, part of the effort of the United Nations and the broader international community, together with political decision makers, but also together with business representatives and others have been to focusing on how to ensure that the flow of goods into Yemen is as free and or as easy as possible so that it lowers the price of the goods, and it increases the purchasing power of the Yemeni.

The Hudaydah port is in that regard is an essential point of entry for Yemeni goods. And, and without it, there is a risk that the price of commodities will remain high due to the cost of entry of goods into Yemen. So, from that point of view, it is important for Yemen as a whole to allow as many ports of entry to be as effective and as functioning as possible in order to allow a free flow of goods into Yemen and contribute to lowering prices of daily commodities, which in turn would then improve the purchasing power of the Yemenis.

The broader question that you ask which is a question about basically revenues and how you share revenues within Yemen in the future. That is a question that the Yemenis themselves will have to answer through negotiation under UN auspices. And these are questions that we are engaging with the parties on, with right now, but I also want them to talk with one another about these issues in order to make sure that we can find suitable long-term and sustainable solutions and just solutions on these matters.

And that is not only revenues from the Hudaydah port, these are revenues from other parts as well inside Yemen.

Al Shorehi

Since we're talking about ports, let's talk about salaries. What is the salary situation? Is there likely to be a breakthrough soon? People are asking whether there will be a breakthrough in salaries, particularly teachers’ salaries, soon.

Grundberg

It is clear that the issue of salaries has been on the agenda for quite some time. And it was part of the proposal that we submitted to the parties already last September. The difficulty though, and I do not want to underestimate the difficulty of reaching a solution to this issue. If you look at it from the onset, everyone agrees, everyone, regardless of where you are in Yemen and also internationally, everyone agrees that civil servants’ salary should be paid.

So, from that point of view, it should be pretty straightforward. But once you enter into how you deliver that payment, you enter into rather complicated questions when it comes to budget and when it comes to revenues. And these are questions that needs to be settled through negotiations among Yemenis. So, the challenge that we have and that we're facing right now is finding a solution where salaries can be paid, but also where a mechanism where the Yemenis themselves can then, while salaries are paid, enter into negotiations for a long-term and sustainable settlement on the future payment of these salaries.

And those discussions are ongoing. And, it isclear that we really want to see a solution through those discussions.

Al Shorehi

What about the opening of roads? The most notable file under this question is the opening of Taiz roads, a matter that was at the core of the truce. This file kept stalling. This is in addition to the Qa'ataba-Al Dale’ road and the Al Jawf road. Many people travel the desert road and face numerous dangers along the way. As previously said, the Taiz case is the most notable, and nothing has been resolved.

Grundberg

This goes in line with what I mentioned when it came to Sana’a Airport, for example, and also related to the issue of Hudaydah port. It is all interlinked in a certain way, to a return to a normal way of life. And a return to that normal way of life requires freedom of not only movement of goods, but a freedom of movement of people inside Yemen. And for that to take place, roads will have to be open and roads in Taiz will have to be open. The roads in Taiz and the roads in other governorates as well, will have to be open.

And I was in conversations earlier with a number of different Yemenis in other governorates, not only in Taiz about the need for roads to be opened there as well in order to facilitate movement of people.

So, I think I agree with you that there is an expectation that, at a certain point, roads that have been closed due to the conflict will have to be reopened. We engaged with the parties in connection with the truce on negotiations when it comes to roads and Taiz. And I visited Taiz also just a couple of months after the beginning of my tenure, and I have experienced the situation in Taiz firsthand. The fact that we did not reach a solution, and a settlement at the end of those negotiations, and that those didn't deliver the openings we wanted to see is naturally something is a disappointment for me. But it does not mean that I have given up on that matter. I believe, again, that roads need to be open, roads that have been closed due to the war will have to be open inside Yemen in order to allow a free movement of people and a return to normal way of life.

Al Shorehi

There is another issue, one that is central and pivotal: the Southern question. Given all of these dynamics there, what are the means for a solution?

Grundberg

So, the question of the South, the question of the future of the south has been a long standing one, and that goes without saying, it has been there for a long period. And this issue is interlinked with longer term questions such as the future governance arrangement and the management of resources and revenues nationwide.

I believe that the Southern question and the future of the South will need to be addressed. But it needs to be addressed within the context of a negotiated settlement regarding the future of Yemen. And it needs to be addressed in a peaceful way, and it needs to be addressed among Yemenis and where southern voices are being allowed to be heard, but also other voices are allowed to be heard so that this is done in a structured way and in a peaceful way.

Al Shorehi

Reality is different in regards to the Southerners. As I said, there is a force on the ground, whether the STC or other forces. What are the approaches to deal with this reality.

Grundberg

So, I deal with it as I deal with my engagement with all Yemenis, and that is through straight, trustworthy and honest exchanges with them. So, I visited Aden just recently, and I had long discussions with Vice President Aidrous Al Zubaidi and these are not the first discussions that I have with him. It is a series of long conversations that I have had with him about how to find the ways to address the conflict in Yemen on a broader level, and also how to address the southern question.

And these discussions will continue. And as long as I find that this discussion is forward looking and is constructive and is focusing on finding solutions, it will be to the benefit of the long-term settlement of the conflict in Yemen.

Al Shorehi

Dear Mr. Hans, there is a growing sentiment among Yemenis that the solution rests in the hands of external actors: countries within the region or other nations. I would like to ask you about the current situation and positions of Yemeni powers. How do external actors contribute to either easing or further complicating the situation in relation to the positions of Yemeni powers?

Grundberg

My belief is that the regional actors can be supportive in finding solutions to the conflict in Yemen. They have financial leverage, and they also have the possibility of engaging with a number of different Yemeni actors in a supportive way. However, it ismy firm belief that the true nature of the solution to the conflict in Yemen can only come from Yemen, and that the long-term settlement will have to be found in negotiations among Yemenis. The region or any external actor can be supportive but cannot deliver the solution.

Al Shorehi

Mr. Hans, we know that the more engaged the international community is in a given issue, the faster it is resolved, and vice versa. Is it true that Yemen's file is receiving less attention and is being overshadowed by other issues pertaining to Ukraine, Russia, and the Sudan? Or is it still present in international discussions?

Grundberg

I would not want to enter into a popularity contest when it comes to conflicts in the world. But it is very unfortunate that the conflict in Yemen has been going on while other conflicts have also flared up. So, the attention of the international community is now divided on quite a number of different serious conflicts of which Yemen is one. And that brings a challenge because you want attention, but you also want financial support, and you want the political leverage from the international community when you try to settle a conflict such as the one in Yemen. And when that attention is being divided on other conflicts in the world, it becomes more challenging to get that level of support.

But I still believe that the focus or the level of support and the level of exchange that I have with the international community remains very strong. I have numerous and ongoing and close interactions with the Americans, with the Russians, and the Chinese. And there is this common sense of unity among these three nations who on other files can look at files in a very different way. There is a commonality in their approach, and there is a commonality in their support to the work of the United Nations.

And that is something that I will use to the benefit of the work that I engage on. And that I think is something that is important in the overall approach that we need to have when it comes to addressing Yemen.

Al Shorehi

I have been talking to you for a long time, but it is because I am so glad you are here with us. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, especially that you do not like being in the spotlight. So, please, bear with me for another five minutes. I brought up the subject of international attention because many Yemenis believe that if the international community is absent, it is in their best interests, which is not the case. If the international community moved away, solutions will be available, as we saw in Somalia. Somalia's civil war subsided only after the international community gave up and stepped back. Mr. Hans, I would like to hear your thoughts or comments, before moving to my last question on the importance of the international community being present in any issue, whether political or humanitarian.

Grundberg

So, again, I believe that, when it comes to negotiating and finding the solutions, this will have to remain in the hands of Yemenis; only Yemenis themselves can define their own future, but it can be done with the support of the international community. And that is also why it is important to have a credible mediator here and where the role of the United Nations comes in, as a support mechanism, but also as a witness to ongoing discussions so that they are steered in the right direction. But in end, the solutions and the negotiations will need to be held by Yemenis themselves.

The international community can provide great support to these political goals if it avoids being too directive in terms of where it wants Yemenis to agree, and it allows Yemenis themselves to find their own, to define their own future.

But also, the international community’s support, financial support, the humanitarian support, cannot be underestimated either. There has been tremendous support to tremendous amounts of efforts being delivered to Yemen during these last few years that one should not underestimate. Unfortunately, the multitude of conflicts that we see in the world today means that this financial support is now being divided between other conflicts as well, which means that we risk seeing a reduction in that level of support.

So, that is why it is even more important to see the conflict in Yemen come to an end, and that we allow Yemen to embark on a more self-sustaining path so that it steps away from being dependent on humanitarian aid and can start working on more development-oriented support. But for that to happen, a political settlement of the conflict is needed. So, there is, therefore, an urgency that we do see a result from the work that me and my office are doing together with the Yemenis and with the support of the international community.

Al Shorehi

My last question. Talking about the regional players in regards to the Yemeni files: Saudi Arabia and Iran. Everyone says there are  intentions to end the conflict in Yemen. What is your assessment of the roles of those two countries, in particular?

Grundberg

So, again, and this is in line with the answer I just provided earlier, is the fact that we have two countries who have taken steps in renewing their diplomatic relations, following a long period of break, two countries that are Yemen’s neighbors. I believe this step is to the benefit of Yemen when you have an open channel of communication between these two countries. But one also should manage expectations when it comes to the delivery on how the Yemeni conflict is to be settled.

The fact that they talk to each other is welcome. The fact that they open channels of communication is good. But again, linked to my previous answers, the solution, the long-term settlement, the solution to the conflict in Yemen is Yemeni. And so, the relationship between Saudi Arabia and Iran can be of support to Yemen. The fact that they do talk to each other can be of support to Yemen, but it cannot be the solution.

Al Shorehi

Thank you so much. I am very happy that you are with us, Mr. Hans Grundberg, the Special Envoy for Yemen. If you have any comments or messages about something that I missed talking about in the interview, the floor is yours.

Grundberg

Thank you very much. I would like to thank you for allowing me to participate in this exchange. And thank you for the very good questions. And the only message I have to all Yemenis is that my Office and myself we will remain relentless in terms of getting Yemen to where we want Yemen to come. And that is to a long-term end of this conflict in a sustainable and just peace.

Thank you.